I think you should take a look now. There are new, and I believe, very important comments, one of them is addressing you in particular. It is the question of why the Wall is a Palestinian victory. Do you truly believe that? It also questions that there has indeed been a "victory" of Hamas.
Mary
12:57 AM, August 03, 2009
************************ Mary,
I already looked, on the new and very important comments, addressing me.
It took time to digest the important commented because Tarik's English, plus I have difficult in reading posts without paragraphs.
I answered the question about the victory of Hamas, and Hezbollah not raising a finger to help Palestinians.
As for the racist separation wall, yes its a symbol and sign for the failure of the Zionist project, of the great Israel Gaza , Israeli failures in July and Gaza
And on the other hand claiming "that both Hamas and Fatah are not committed to ending the Occupation First,.... ending the Occupation will put both Hamas and Fatah and Jihad out of business".." (Comment 15)
With full respect to all who disagreed with me I still believe something wrong saying what is wrong with the Palestinians? A whole lot. I am not singling people I am singling ideas, problematic ideas, even if it's the ideas of our brothers and sisters, rather than singling people. I criticized and commented on the content, on the ideas, and I have no power to silent, moderate, censor ideas and thoughts on this site. I don't do that even at my own site, where comments are not moderated, and reader to comment don't have to give their e-mails The Issue is not Fateh and Hamas. The real issue is not human rights, not the dress code, not Hamas prisoners at PA Prison, not Fateh prisoners at Hamas jails. Again the real Issue is not Fateh and Hamas. Palestine is bigger than both, as Mazin Quwasimy correctly said.
The Real Issue is Resistance or Resisting Resistance, as Dr. Abdelsattar Qassem, rightfully summarized. I meant by resistance all types of resistance. And once the Palestinians agree on big issue, they will agree easily agree on the secondary issues. It's up to you to decide where you stand. For Tarik, I would say. Yes, Israel failed to achieve its goals, in both Lebanon and Gaza. Yes Israel destroyed Lebanon, and Gaza, and would do it again and again, but I don't think the Goal was the destruction, or maintaining the siege on Gaza. The goal was destroying the resistance will, and that's where Israel failed. Netanyaho indirectly admitted that in Hoping that Palestinians will Eventually Topple Hamas. Netanyahu's tool in making his dream come true, is maintaining the siege, untill your resistance is broken. Its sad to see some Palestinian falling into Netanyah's Trap, with all respect to their right of speech, I repeat, what Gilad said "your silence would be appreciated" You were right in not blaming Hamas, as others did, for all what happened, Yes, I agree with you, the the story is very different in Lebanon, but, the main difference is geological, Lebanon was never under siege even during July War. Gaza and West Bank were always under siege, thanks to "Lions" in Cairo and Amman. It is not fair to say that Hezbollah "did not lift a finger towards helping" you. and to say "No one came for to help" you. I am not in a position to tell you what they did for you, but I am sure Both Mossad and Omar Suleiman knows what Hezbollah did, or tried to do via your neighbours (Jordan and Egypt. And that may explain why Hamas had "little materiel so to truly resist". Yes, I agree with you "It is not Hamas's fault for all of that", but it also not the Fault of Hezbollah, nor its the fault of Syria and Iran. To set the record fairly we should say, it is the treason in Jordan and Cairo. Within, the given geopolitical circumstance, I would disagree with you, and say, I salute Hamas Heroic stand in both military resistance with the "little material they have", and the political resistance, against the inhuman Israeli / Egyptian siege. I salute all International Activists trying to break it. SURVIVAL IS RESISTANCE, and as long as they fail to break our will, our blood shall defeat all swords. read MoreMary I believe Sami's agenda is very clear, and considering your reaction towards my title: What is wrong with Sami Jamil Jadallah? I am not going to spoil more time in the "most important debate", because in continuing I shall call spade, spade, and you shall not like that. I am on the same page with Palestinians like Salim Nazzal, "My allegiance is with no party. My loyalty is to Palestine." "Palestine – we are taught from one generation to the next, is above all ideologies, parties, persons and politicians. Yet too often Palestinian politicians put their personal and party interests above the interests of Palestine." 'The Palestinian revolution is not the construct of philosophers or university professors. It is a revolution which has its genesis in the anguish of ordinary Palestinians whose families were murdered before their eyes, by Palestinian, Zionist Jewish terrorists, expelled them from their homes. The flames of this revolution have been fanned by the daily humiliation at the Zionist check points and Israeli prisons which are overpopulated with innocent Palestine’s taken from their beds at gunpoint. "The Palestinian revolution is the expression of the loss of trust in the justice of international community – which has been unwilling or unable to enforce one single UN resolutions against Israel. Powerful nations continue to lecture us about the human rights provided arms to the Zionist apartheid state and turn a blind eye to the occupation and theft of Palestinian land, and to the oppression and humiliation of Palestinians. The Palestinians will never accept being slaves in their country." More
I shall visit and read and whenever I have to say somthing, I shall say it here.
Uprooted Palestinian on August 4th, 2009 at 2:59:
Yesterday mary said...
UP, sorry if it took you "days" to see your comment up. I really do doubt it though, if you don't mind me saying it, because I am the person who moderates comments and after the first one is approved, the rest go up automatically......
There are new, and I believe, very important comments, one of them is addressing you in particular. It is the question of why the Wall is a Palestinian victory. Do you truly believe that? It also questions that there has indeed been a "victory" of Hamas.
12:57 AM, August 03, 2009
I accepted the invitation to discover that MARY put me under MODERATION.
Uprooted Palestinian on August 4th, 2009 at 2:59:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Mary
The comment waiting moderation, it is not my first.
LONG LIVE FREE SPEECH and "ideas and thoughts" are " open for debate 360°"
Update:
I brought this from PTT.
Mary claimed that my claim on Mederation is not true.
Its indeed true and to prove that I pulled out an old PTT thread under which I posted my first(Moderated) comment on May
Check comment 30
I shall comment on the other points later here not o PPT tonight. I am sure Mary shall read it her, and its up to here to comment or ignore.
Originally Posted By Mary Rizzo @Uprooted Palestinian -
Well, UP. It is interesting to note that while you claim you have alliegance to NO PARTY; (precisely what Sami says, as he stresses that his alliegance is to his land and people), you spend a lot of time stressing where you are different and in insisting that Hamas are the only ones holding the candle and that they are indeed the true resistance force, despite some evidence. Pointing out where Hamas is abandoning its principles is something that can only be of use, unless we see it as more important to uphold the opposing Party to Fatah no matter how it acts, which at least this can be said of Hamas, they are to be preferred on many levels to Fatah who are indeed busy collaborating with the selling and giving away of Palestine. A few comments, if I may. 1) you claim it took you days to see your comments here because I "moderate". That claim is untrue, as the post was set up at 25 July and your comments appear on the very same date. 2) you claim along with Gilad that the Separation Wall is a "great Palestinian achievement".
Can you please respond to the two people, including another Palestinian like yourself, who challenge this statement that Zionist oppression instruments are "Palestinian achievements". I am not the only one who looked at this and was aghast, there were others in public and private. I would like to hear your defence of this. 3) you obviously support two states (one for Jews and one for Palestinians) in your comments. I had been reading your site for a long time, and to be honest, that really surprised me. Zionists want two separate states, as well as those who think it is needless to resist any longer and to just settle for what is left. 4) you claim that Israel had "lost" in Gaza, because the resistance is still there. First of all, Israel knows that the only way to bring all resistance to an end is to indeed destroy all Palestinians. Thank God this will NEVER happen and there are Palestinians who will always fight for what is theirs and what is right. In this case, until the last Palestinian is gone, using your logic, we can say that Israel can do whatever it likes, maintain the world and Palestinians hostage, bombard it to the ground without punishment, allow a total siege and imprison thousands of innocent people, but they are losing, no matter how much Palestinians suffer, because the only goal of Israel is to just destroy Palestinians. As Jesse, Jeff, Tarek and others said, the resistance has never been at a lower point in Palestine. The morale is low because simply.... the group that could have done operations decided to stop them. It is not only a question of obtaining weapons, it is far deeper, but I can't say the precise reasons, because I am here in Italy and don't know how deep the suffering of the Gazans is, but I imagine it is tremendous. Israel made them obey and they obeyed, GETTING NOTHING in exchange, not even the lifting of the siege. I just don't understand this putting a rose tinted glass over reality. I too support Hamas as the elected representatives of their people, but that they are not doing resistance is so obvious! It is no wonder their consensus is shrinking, they have abandoned resistance. This is something that a lot of people have said for the past 6 or 7 months. The situation in Lebanon is also different for the fact that the people recognised Hezbollah as a resistance movement, even the Christians did, and if you doubt it, I have about 6 interviews I did when I was at the Lebanon conference with people from all backgrounds. Islamic, Christian, Secular, Anti-Imperialist, of the Civil Society, Scientists and Doctors, and they said, "the People are the resistance and we entrusted Hezbollah to carry it out". I can find them (or you can) easily. I have never heard this way of responding in the Gaza situation either in Gaza or by Palestinians in the West Bank, and believe me, I got thousands of letters, bulletins, etc, spoke to Gazan friends who told me of their situation, and I think you know what I am talking about, whether or not you find it convenient to admit it. 5) that you are free to do as you like on your site is sacrosanct. That you do it anonymously and at the same time hold up as a "bad example" someone who is just as much dedicated to your cause (who knows if not more, I can't know it, but I can say that I know Sami and know his dedication is around the clock and concrete) well, that is for you to judge as appropriate or not. I said a few times I don't like it. Take it or leave it!! I find things in your ideas that are surprising and questionable. I know you said you are out of the debate, and that obviously is your prerogative, but it is easy to do so when the weak points are pointed out by others and you end in bold text telling others about how you are steadfast and they are not! Good luckMary "2) you claim along with Gilad that the Separation Wall is a "great Palestinian achievement". ... I would like to hear your defence of this."
I am obliged, on reading term defence to DEFEND myself as follows:
Your HONER, I admit, I did that, but forgive me your Honor, to say, you failed to understand what Gilad and me meant by saying that the Wall is a "great Palestinian achievement". Both of us are aware that its Sharon's achievement, I would add its Ahmad Quraa Achievement, being the cement supplier.
Your honor, Gillad and me are against that wall and all walls.
Your Honor, we expected free minded thinker would understand what we meant. We know, that Israel wanted to steel more Land and water resources, but your honor, Israel, the 4th military power in the world, wanted also to stop Palestinian freedom fighter operations, especially the so-called suicide bomber.
Your Honor, the Zionist Movement goal is Great, or greater Israel, from Nile to Furat, but failed after 42 years to digest the WB and Great GAZA (Rabin dreamed he would wake up and find Gaza drawn in the sea). Your honor, IDF occupied Beirut, and its the Great Lebanese resistance that forced the IDF to withdraw to Awaly river, north of Saida, and gradually to the so-called security zone, and Its Hezbollah who completed the Job, and forced Israel to leave without conditions, without Jezzeen first. Your honor, inspired, by Hezbollah, the Palestinian launched the second Intifada, that brought Sharon to Power with a promise to finish the Intifada in 100 days, and you know what happened. Sharon failed and followed the steps of Barak, pulled out of Gaza, without conditions, but he and puppet Mubarak kept the keys.
The Israeli King with his non-defeated IDF, failed to stop freedom fighters, in particular the human bombs, therefore, he built the wall.
Your Honor, Gilad and me are talking about the collapse of Zionism, building the wall is and index for the shrinkage of the Zionist goal from greatest Israel from Nile to Furat, to a Jewish Ghetto surrounded by the separation wall.
*******************************
"3) you obviously support two states (one for Jews and one for Palestinians) in your comments. I had been reading your site for a long time, and to be honest, that really surprised me. Zionists want two separate states, as well as those who think it is needless to resist any longer and to just settle for what is left."
No, I don't and I challenge you to provide a quote with a link to where I said I support two state solution. I am for an independent Palestinian state on any Liberated inch of Palestinian Land, Liberated without conditions, and without selling Palestinian Rights in Palestine from river to sea.
*******************************
4) you claim that Israel had "lost" in Gaza, because the resistance is still there.
First of all, Israel hoped the Palestinian Elders shall die and the Palestinian Children shall forget, Its the resistance that forced Israel to admit that there is a palestinian people and Palestinian resistance. Israel succeded in turning Fatah, from a resistance movement into a mafia of collaborators, thieves and buggers. Israel tried using Dahlan to crush resistance in Gaza and failed, tried diretly and Failed. For me, any Israeli failure is a Resistance Victory. Netanyaho, still hope that a time shall come and Gazans shall remove Hamas. Tony of PP, and Sami of PTT are objectively on the same page, the only difference is they call also for removing Fateh.
"In this case, until the last Palestinian is gone, using your logic, we can say that Israel can do whatever it likes, maintain the world and Palestinians hostage, bombard it to the ground without punishment, allow a total seige and imprison thousands of innocent people, but they are losing, no matter how much Palestinians suffer, because the only goal of Israel is to just destroy Palestinians. "
This is not my Logic, it's Sami's and Your's. Since Israel can do whatever it likes, and since the resistance stopped resisting, failed to lift the siege, its time, as Sami clearly stated, Called the UN to step in and Liberate Palestinians from Hamas, Fateh and Israel. In other direct words, disarm Hamas. Again this call, is in full harmony with Abbas calls for UN in Gaza only, and Israel Call to expand the UNIFIL mission in south Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah.
It is up to the "group that could do operations", not me, not you, to decide when to stop them, and when to resume them. It is not that Hamas have abandoned resistance, unless you believe that resistance is only military. Resistance, knows better that you, than me, "how deep the suffering of the Gazans is" I too know, not imagine "it is tremendous." All people who fought for Liberation, paid a bloody bill for their freedom, ask Algerians, as an example.
You know, I am not "putting a rose tinted glass over reality"
I said Palestinian Blood shall defeat the sword, all the swords, and I fully agree with Gillad saying:
"I said before that the Palestinians are at the forefront of the struggle for humanity. But now I start to understand what I really meant. Palestinians (and also Iraqis and Afghans) seem to face alone every bad aspect of Western ideology and practice. It is not a coincidence that the West supports the Jewish State. It is not surprising that our 'friends' are reluctant to support Hamas. The verdict is clear. The Palestinian are alone here, and yet, they will win because Western hedonism won't win forever. There is light at the end the tunnel… "
As for the different situation in Lebanon, I generally agree with AIzabella, and with respect to you and the 6 interviews you made, with "people from all backgrounds. Islamic, Christian, Secular, Anti-Imperialist, of the Civil Society, Scientists and Doctors", Lebanese were never, and still, not united and recognising Hezbollah as resistant movement, especially after year 2000. I have never been in Gaza, nor in WB, but I lived half my life in lebanon, and have family and friends there, one of them Paid the Ticket for Rafeek Al-Hareeri, when he first moved to Saudi Arabia. The three of us were in the Same school.
5) I find things in your ideas that are surprising and questionable. I know you said you are out of the debate, and that obviously is your prerogative, but it is easy to do so when the weak points are pointed out by others and you end in bold text telling others about how you are steadfast and they are not!
My Ideas, you Ideas, all Ideas are questionable, only "representaives of Gods" on earth, claim holding the Ultimate truth. I meant by "Gods" communist Gods, seular Gods, and all Gods, and here I am with Gilad on the Same Page. "Most likely" he departed the debate before me, "when the weak points are pointed out by others"
I can't Help, and can't understand calling a people of collaborators, beggars and thieves, for mass uprising, and I can't for sure support the call for another kind of Occupation, a UN occupation, So you should appreciate my Silence, and may be Gilad's
14 comments:
UP, i honestly do not have the time to debate and jump from page to page on your beck and call. The debate started on PTT, and it is easier for me and anyone else involved in it to address it there, unless that is what you want to avoid. You decided to move it here to satisfy yourself and that is again, up to you. I am totally free to still consider this something really really strange. It makes me need to go back to another site to point out the direct quotes and what have you, and I don't like to take anything out of context, so having material on another site is just not easy or practical for me to do and I won't. I would like to think that neither of us have to put words in the mouths of others, that we could consider ourselves as humans who have the same interest without expecting anyone else to see all as we do. Just as I never condemned the Hamas, I can personally understand a Palestinian who does just that for what he sees as its divisional factors and its distance from resistance (maybe not entirely its own fault, but who knows), while recognising its merits at the same time. Just as I allow loads of condemnation of Fatah on my site, which is perhaps unfair, anyone is free to say that Fatah is not what is represented by the articles and commentary. just like my own leaning, if i had to choose, would be a third intifada, popular uprising, and a lot of input from a party that I personally admire the most, PFLP, but I am not palestininian. I have to limit myself to providing a place for debate and discussion, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or want to hear the opinion of others. If you say that the Wall was a great victory (and you think you know what you are saying by this), in that it challenged the Zionist project, that is up to you to say, and if you want to act as if my asking you about it puts me in the role of kangaroo court judge, you can waste your time in other ways. Whether or not the Zionists have all of Palestine, any demilitarisation they are going to obtain of it will still be Israeli control, so the wall is just one painful torture device in addition to all the rest. Calling it a Palestinian victory is your prerogative. Gilad isn't always perfect with his sentences, let me tell you, but repeat whatever he says that interests you. (and I don't think I need to be explained the words of Atzmon, since I've known him for many years, but you should explain your own statements and I wonder if that sentence really is a good one).
rest follows
We should be on the same side, but you seem to be more interested in creating hostility and division, and I don't want to be a part of it at all. I would rather ignore you, that being the case, and there I was, asking you to please respond to the questions for an interview as a featured site (you didn't) asking you as well to write a paper for us (you won't) more than that, I can't do. sorry. Be bitter and happy!
Just as you say you don't want silencing, but then say silence is better. Just like you say you don't want to single out people but ideas, but do it just the same. I don't have time for this, really. I consider it not constructive.
I know that the Palestinians are very demoralised and this I do not consider a victory. Israel has succeeded in divide and conquer, and as a matter of fact, one of my friends in Gaza wrote that very sentence to me this morning, and i have no reason to doubt it is true. No, I haven't been to Gaza either, all I can do is talk to people, and they have generally all stated that they see little future or hope and that they do not feel there is a way out. Many want nothing more than Palestinian and Arab unity. That would be a miracle that I want to see happen.
that is all I have to say, besides, the rest of the text is already on another page so it's too complicated to do commenting this way. I thank you for all your support in the past, but I personally don't see the need for your hostility. BTW, sounds like you DO support two states.. i can't remember your arguments now, but so be it, whatever you think is fine and I will debate you no longer. Enjoy your aggro!
Ciao!
Mary
Since you dropped your first comment her, thanking me for putting PTT Wedget here. I remember, I told you that I am not in copetition with any Palestinian, or Pro-Palestinian Site. We Should complete each other.
I am Copying Article from all sites I know, as is, to let readers know about those sights.
So, Mary, thinking that I am trying to shift the debate to my site is not fair.
I posted Sami's article like i do with most of articles posted at your site. I changed the Title, because, I don't like his title,
Its you not me who brought the debate her, you could have said your opinion there, at your site, or you could have comtacted me by my e-mail.
I can't accept comming here to drop a sentance taken out of text, out of the debate, Like, the wall is the greatest Palestinian Achievemet, or such as "BTW, sounds like you DO support two states.." I don't know who of my readers are following the debate, and who are not, and therfore, I was obliged to let them know whats going on.
I challanged you to provide a link to where I said I support the Zionist Two state solution?
If you can't remember my arguments, you have to dig for it, because, ethically, you have no right to words in my mouth.
"now, but so be it, whatever you think is fine" its upto to you to debate me or not. Its you not me who said that quiting a debate is a sign of weakness.
Enjoy your ....!
As far as I am concerned, Palestine from river to see, Gollan, and Shebaa farms are occupied territories, However, as I told Anon on my site, I support an independant state in WB and Gaza without selling my rights,
Is that quote accurate? That was written by you, so I don't know what to say. That some say, "Oh, I'd like Palestine entire, but will settle for less, such as an independent state in WB and Gaza", well, I don't know any other way to interpret it.
the reason i spoke with you here on your site in the first place was MY view that your singling out someone, just as you do with me now, as if I am a collaborationist or someone to treat as a judge to be ridiculed, I find negative and counterproductive to any discourse and not necessary for hundreds of people to read it. Carry on with it, by all means, I can't and won't stop you. You create the environment you want. It really is a shame, but that is life.
Its vey accurate. I shall help you to interpret it., Like I did with the Wall
I said without selling My Rights. By "MY" I meant Refugee Rights in their land occpied in 1948.
I am not talking about civil rights, My peoples right.
To make it more easy for you, I am for "Hamastan" in Gaza and a long truce. and against a puppet Fatahistan in WB selling 78 % of palestine.
Read this it may help
Two State Solution VS Two stage solution
Mary,
Please read again the UP's quote above (the one you indicated), and note how he is speaking: "I support an independant state in WB and Gaza without selling my rights". Nowhere he is mentioning two states or is he accepting the zionist colonist settler’s state, that no patriot Palestinian will ever accept.
So, you're inferring he's speaking of two states, when he is not actually doing it. In my opinion you're projecting your own schemes upon him and his words.
What UP is saying is pretty much what the true patriots say and what Hamas is also publicly declaring lately. It will accept, *for the time being*, a state within the 67 lines, if it is emptied of occupiers, and provided that the right of return is fulfilled for all the Palestinians in the Diaspora. Aware as they are of the enormous difference of fire-power (and political power/support) between the settler's state -3rd or 4th military force in the world, profusely armed to the teeth by the USA-; and them, that have to rely on stones, a few light weapons and the celebre home-made hand-painted qassam rockets (which, none the less I think it is a weapon of mammoth *strategic* value, humble as it is!. AND this Sami Jamil, a soldier, would have to value), they know that the liberation is still a long way ahead, and maybe will it take two or three more generations. So, they'd accept a state *for the moment* within the 67 lines. And, indeed, will never accept, nor recognize, the occupation. The occupation is indeed a reality, as they know far too well, on their own flesh, but this does not mean it has to be accepted by the Palestinians.
Please don't take these words of mine as an offence, as they are not meant to offend you; but though your comments I have noticed that you tend to infer things. You did it several times with UP and (I think) you also misunderstood my post (although this is unimportant) some days ago suggesting responsibility and maturity prior to posting certain things publicly. As you have said you're a friend of Santi Alba, you must know he's not an authoritarian or condescending type of person, consequently, he'd never say anyone to shut up (I mean, regarding an exchange of ideas, I guess he would do it if, say, some brute insulted his mother). He, like me, was suggesting responsibility and maturity, particularly when, and if, we speak about the Palestinian cause and conflict. I chose his words because he writes beautifully and said it better than me. If there's any fault it has to be found in my translation, but since you do understand Spanish you can check out his whole piece in Rebelion site and see my quote within its context. If memory serves me, the title was "Palabras contra la Paz. Por qué el estado judío es inviable"
Maybe an example would help understand what I (and Santi) meant. Freedom of speech will be of no value to a kid or an insane. In the first case: immaturity; in the second case, illness will in all probability cause the insane to utter just nonsenses. None of this cases has anything to do with Sami Jamil, they're two extreme cases just to show that freedom of speech is not an ethereal general issue, there are cases that must be dealt with, much the same as we the supporters of the Palestinians would not lend our forums for the zionist hasbarian spammers to vomit whatever barbarities they want. Agree? I hope you do, and that's why you are somehow filtering them and keeping them away.
There are persons who think that they're entitled to venting, insulting, defaming
under the banner of the freedom of speech. This, in my view, is not correct. And I don't mean I'd forbid them doing that, mind you?. But there is a place and a time for everything. I don't mind there are individuals that pratice nudism, but I'd find it improper and disrespectful (to others) going nude inside the cathedral.
I don't know if I managed to explain myself better this time. Hope so.
Wow, this is too long already. (Sorry).
Let us compare.
Netanyahu said that Gaza is now a “terrorist base”, four years after the withdrawal from the Strip
Fateh Turned WB into a collaborators base
Thaks for your contribution
Up
Lu, I try not to project, because I for certain know my view is probably extremely radical and very few hold ones like this and are able to say it using their names, and being easy to trace, so I don't tell others what their views are, and yes, I can only interpret what others say because all i have to go on are the words they write, perhaps written without full awareness of how they are perceived. I am not the only one who saw (and interpreted that way) the statement that UP would accept Gaza and WB as a Palestinian state. I also know others say they will never accept this, and probably both are as devoted to their cause, but have different reasons for expressing it. I am not putting him on trial, I asked him to explain, and preferably in a place that is easier for me to manage and get the precise quotes, since he wants to paint me in the role as His Honour. If he wants to act like this is what I do, let him do it. I don't care! I am fully aware of what I am and what I do and any kind of treatment he wants to give me is up to him. Let him do it. I honestly do not have more time for it. I too am trying to manage a site and then do all the other things a person does.
rest down below
Now, to touch on Santi. I don't translate him from Spanish, but from the English translation made of him to Italian, as well as fixing up the English translations. He is a great and very intelligent person, a dear friend, but yes, even Santi and I have had a discourse about "silence"! This happened a few years ago when I wrote an exposé on Rafi Eitan and Cuba. It was widely circulated and a great deal of interest was elicited, as well as a lot of scandal, because the matter is pretty nasty. I asked if Santi could help me with gathering some info so that all the material I had (most of it from Anti-Zionists, not from Anti-Revolutionaries) could be verified even further, or put me in touch with others who were able to do it, and he said that "attacking Cuba" (as if that was what I was doing!!!) was something that "would fall into the wrong hands and Cuba had enough problems, better to keep all of this Rafi Eitan stuff silent".
I was shocked, because I am of a different view that those who love a cause and their people are obligated to be truthful about it and not protect corruption and dealings that are very bad for them as a people and a cause, thinking that the self-criticism that exists in Italy, in a lot of people in the Middle East, would be the same for Cuba. It is not. But we talked about it for a while, I see the point he wants to make, but I don't agree. I realise that there are people who may not be censors, may not even be gatekeepers, but they have a view that certain things, the dirty underbelly, should just be ignored so that the entire cause does not get dirtied. This is their view. They are free to hold it, but the moment they impose it on me, I feel that truth and honesty have gotten another small defeat in the name of some higher value (in someoneone's opinion).
It would be useful once and for all to have a real idea of what free speech is all about, who it serves, who is "allowed" to use it, its limits. I am obligated to at some level moderate PTT comments, and have explained why. It is not only to save time, but to protect the readers from undue offence and attacks. Attacks are never fun, and almost always wrong. I can't always be online so this is the only way. Some great sites i know had to totally omit all comments due to the level of abusive users, and let me tell you, we get hundreds of them a day, and someone has to take the time to weed it out. If you want to call it censorship, fine. I know what it is. This does not mean that even some comments I am 100% in disagreement with do not appear, as a matter of fact, they do. I even want to reserve the right that i can disagree with the other editors or many contributors and that they can disagree with me, since we are different people with different views and certainly different backgrounds and different belief systems. I was certain I was always respectful to you, UP, so your little kangaroo court thing looked like some weird over-reaction to me quoting you and asking you to substantiate your argument (and as I said, looked that way not only to me, others pointed out that you were attacking me), so if this is your mode to respond, that is just how you are! You have your reasons, and I can have my own to think it is inappropriate.
i always like to pretend that it's enough to love and work for and fight for the Palestinians to have their freedom, but it seems that isn't the case with a lot of people. They like and seek division for some reason and it is indeed sad. Hopefully one day I will be able to look at your site as i always did, each day with joy and thankfulness.
"and yes, I can only interpret what others say because all i have to go on are the words they write, perhaps written without full awareness of how they are perceived."
True, but I would be careful if English is not your mother toungue, and you told me in clear words,that you are not that god and Writing is a time consuming job.
I read tarik's posts many times, to digest what he tried to say before daring to comment on his ideas.
As Lu said, "Nowhere he is mentioning two states or is he accepting the zionist colonist settler’s state, that no patriot Palestinian will ever accept."
I am the last person who would seek divisions, and LU knows the big the big proplems I have with people seeling divisions and civil wars.
Mary: I realise that there are people who may not be censors, may not even be gatekeepers, but they have a view that certain things, the dirty underbelly, should just be ignored so that the entire cause does not get dirtied.
--
Maybe Mary, there are folks that defend such stance. Not my case, however, even though I think it's better to wash dirty laundry at home.
My point is
to first see if certain discourses provide the enemy with yet more ammunition. Because in that case, it must be evaluated if it is more convenient to keep silent, specially when no benefit is on sight.
I'd like to respond to Sami Jamil's long post, but 1) I have many things to tell him, 2) my spare time is scarce and 3) writing in English is an added difficulty. So I can’t promise. What saddened me most of his article was the harsh attack on the Palestinian *people*, specially when no analysis was provided (it was kind of a shopping list) and when the article had -apparently- much to do with venting own frustration. Understandable frustration, though.
While he's right on many things he said about the Fatah, PA, PLO, and the Fatah leadership in general, equating these corrupt quislings and thugs with Hamas is outrageous. Declaring that Hamas has stopped with the resistance is not accurate, unless he considers that resistance is only the kamikazes, which certainly have been suspended for the last few years. And so on and so forth.
There are many things I'd like to tell him, as I said. Also, one of issues is is the general tone. My guess is he was attempting at stirring up his fellow compatriots to rebel. But his approach is mistaken, in my view. Had I more time I’d tell you a personal anecdote to shed more light on this, but I must quit now.
Best,
PS.: Don’t get upset with UP. You’d have to know him better and see the noble human being he is.
Lu
Thanks for your kind words,
In my first comment I said to Sami: I understand your anger, But...
He is not the first palestinian attacking his people. It is outraging to see Abbas Picture raised in Ein El-Heleeh, a refugee Camp, near Saida, controlled by Pal, Factions, Maily by • "The New Equation: Tel Aviv in Response to an Attack on Dahiya"
• Jumblatt: I Was Misunderstood, Won’t Abandon Hariri
• Aoun: March 14 Ended, Jumblatt Welcome to Join Opposition
Fafeh gangs,
I remember, my childhood.,early fifties, in that Camp, where 43 out of 45 teachers, were members of Arab nationalists movement. The School Master was Ahmad Al-Yamani, one of the Founders of PFLP. His brother, marytred in the first PLO operation. I can't forget, the first time I saw after Oslo. He was still living in the same house he lived in since early sixties. On seeing me he brook, he looked the photo of his brother hanged on the opposit wall, and cried apologizing to his brother for sending him to die for nothing. That same man, never shed a tear in public when his Brother Myrtered with Sakran Sakran.
I am a iving wittness, on how Fareh, corrupted Palestinians, and later lebanese, with Petro dollar, and draw the carpet from under the feet of PFLP.
I remmember, how Arafat used Hawatimi to divide, PFLP, the first time, and used others to divide whats left. I remember, how he bought Bassam Abu Sharif, and Used Adeeb Abd Rabu, Known as YASER, to split DFLP. In my Last meeting, in early ninties, with Abu Adnan (Abdalkarim Hamad), the Leader of DFLP in Lebanon.
I met him in a hotel out side Lebanon,he told me that commrades are calling Yaser, Yaser Abd (Slave) of Yaser. He was out of funds, and I paid his bill.
Can I accept, calling such people collaborators, theives and beggeres, they carried the cause, failed, I am part of their failure, they died or retired, but refused to sell the cause. New Generations is carrying the cause.
I am not upset by Mary, and I wouldn't say:
"Hopefully one day I will be able to look at" her site I do that every day more than one "with joy and thankfulness".
UP, my friend, the damage the pompous pigmy did to the Palestinian people and their just cause is IMMENSE. Borrowing AA's words -amd I'm repeating myself- I'd say that Arafat is not enough dead and not enough underground for me. What we are wittnessing nowadays is what he himself sowed. Let him rot wherever he is.
There is one thing I applaud the Angry Arab for: As much as he lashes out at kings and princes and sheikhs and all the corrupt fat cats in high places (or what they think they are high places) he NEVER, EVER, would attack the ones that suffer from history, the victims, the underdog. On the contrary he ALWAYS holds their banner firmly for them and cheers them on.
Whatever the differences I might have with him, and I certainly don't see everything eye to eye with him, I'll always applaud his clear, unbreakable position in favour of the weak, the oppressed.
UP, let's go on, for life is short, however art is long and vast. There is much to do.
Post a Comment